1:19 am
Waterboarding
Posted by Garance ()This is what it looks like (scroll down for video).
Looks like torture to me. Can’t someone show Michael Mukasy the video and ask for a direct reaction to it?
7 Responses to “Waterboarding”
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October 31st, 2007 at 6:59 am
[...] Of course, this has sent the Left into hyperspace. Technorati will lead you to one-line posts like “If it’s repugnant, it’s torture,…” and “Looks like torture to me.” Deep thoughts all. I think that sucking the brains out of a child who is 3/4 birthed is repugnant, too, but I’m pretty sure the Left wouldn’t call it torture. Watching The View or Keith Olberman “looks” like torture to me. [...]
October 31st, 2007 at 8:59 am
Waterboarding is considered *torture* throughout the civilized world. Yeah, the shame of it is America doesnt play by international rules. Why is it that Team USA can’t follow international rules? America is constantly pushing a *holier than thou* persona on the globe all the while breaking basic international laws left and right. Torture, suspension of habeas corpus, rendition, warrantless spying yada yada yada (so much to cover with GWBush that yada yada yada is needed). Speaking of *warrantless spying*, why can America spy on foreigners without a warrant? Double standards are no way to rule the world. Without a warrant, nobody should be spied on.
Back to Mukasy, I doubt GWBush wants a new AG. The GWBush administration can not allow over-sight of their dirty dealings. Mukasy is a mere delay tactic. The GWBush administration is on countdown mode to 1.20.09. The next year will be spend house cleaning, tying up loss ends and ensuring a Yankee presence is maintained in Mesopotamia. For the GWBush administration, a new AG could only spell trouble. It was fine when Gonzo was the AG, he has been part of the GWBush family for years and has shown he’ll bite the big one to save GWBush from the long arm of the law. GWBush will be happy to just finish off his reign, free of a new AG who could bring him down.
The U.S. Constitution is more than a piece of paper. It is the foundation, the essence of my country. Why do Americans allow GWBush to ignore the Constitution? Clinton gets impeached for lying about a sexual indiscretion. GWBush though, can lie the country into war and there is no action taken against him or his administration. Again, let’s review… torture, suspension of habeas corpus, rendition, warrantless spying yada yada yada.
Most interrogators believe torture does NOT produce results. Repeat that line LOUDLY in your head *MOST INTEROGATERS BELIEVE TORTURE DOES NOT PRODUCE RESULTS*. If you get your moral guidance and pertinent information from the GOP-Republicans or their propaganda outlets, you wouldn’t know that… *MOST INTEROGATERS BELIEVE TORTURE DOES NOT PRODUCE RESULTS*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7516880/
dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2004/06/21/torture_algiers/index.html
slate.com/id/2106702/
October 31st, 2007 at 9:31 am
It’s not torture when you know it can be called off at any time. It’s not torture when you know what you’re getting into.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:37 am
Good scene of it in “Rendition” too; don’t rush to the theater - catch it on DVD.
October 31st, 2007 at 7:54 pm
No, don’t show the video to Mr. Mukasey. Show it to the general audience of US-American viewers, and let Mr. Mukasey know that you have done so before you ask him to offer his interpretation.
Mr. “this ain’t Hell…” has a point. Repugnance is not an exact measure of moral rightness. However, it can be politically useful.
The moral issue connected to torture is twofold: Does a government have the right to inflict pain upon defenseless captives, and does torture reliably produce true confessions? Since the answer to the latter question is evidently “no” (remember the witch trials?), I believe we can put the first question in the proper perspective — and answer it negatively.
The moral issue connected to abortion (by the way) is threefold: What right does a government have to coerce a woman into giving birth, how does her moral status compare to that of the embryo that she carries, and what would be the effect of abortion prohibition? Since we know that the effect of abortion prohibition would be to add a few thousand women to the yearly death toll of embryoes and second-trimester fetuses, I believe we can confidently conclude that it fails the cost-benefit test. This should put the other two questions into the proper perspective.
Two wrongs never make a right, even if it may sometimes feel as though they do. This is the deeper problem with “repugnance” as a measure of morality. It all too quickly morphs into vengefulness, which misleads us to conclude that the solution to every moral problem must be punishment.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:06 pm
“It’s not torture when you know it can be called off at any time. It’s not torture when you know what you’re getting into.”
I don’t believe Mr. “Bill” is speaking from experience. Nor does he seem to grasp the concept of waterboarding. What makes it work is precisely the victim’s belief that he or she may be permitted to breathe again “at any time,” that is, either before or after drowning, according to the arbitrary will of the torturer. The whole point of waterboarding, or any other kind of torture, is that the victim has no idea what he or she is “getting into.”
If the prisoner were told beforehand, “Now, we’re going to hold your head underwater until we count to twenty, okay?” and if the prisoner were allowed to take a deep breath before being dunked, then yes, this would not be torture. But it also would not be waterboarding.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:47 am
A U.S. military officer fighting Phillipine insurgents in the early 1900′S was sentenced to 10 years jail time for waterboarding a prisoner.
Back then they knew it was barbaric torture, and the U.S. locked people in jail if they violated the laws. The principles of our once great nation had no room for torture under any circumstances. As the NeoDem/RepubliCon Congress allows us to slip further and faster down the slippery slope to a neoFascist corporate dominated state, we now justify torture, we now justify use of illegal weapons containing depleated uranium, we now abandon rule of law. Only from the neotwisted minds of those who post in favor of torture can such ridiculous attempts to justify this barbarity be dredged up. I pity their sad soullessness.